Ted Haggard is Dazed and Confused

But that's not the real problem.

Anyone that's gone down the nasty road he has, preaching and lobbying as he did about the very sin that so easily beset him - it's a miracle he's still breathing.

I think it's noteworthy that he could even appear on TV - even though all he could do was stutter out that grab-bag of theologically and philosophically incoherent mumbo-jumbo.

In last night's Oprah debacle, Oprah pushed her nonsensical view that "we can't deny ourselves" and thus we must, I suppose, just give in to whatever our basest desire are.

Then poor Gayle Haggard tried a few times to argue for what is obviously the truth - that responsible people exhibit self-control every day (Christian or not!). But Ted and Oprah finally beat Gayle into quiet submission.

This garbage is to be expected of our corrupt culture - so I'm not shocked about Oprah, nor even the dazed and confused Ted Haggard.

What I'm shocked at is the ignorance of most of the "Christians" that commented after the show on the blogs and news websites.

"Ted sins, we all sin..."
"His church crucified him instead of loving him back into fellowship..."
"Jesus accepts everyone, no matter what..."

And on and on and on.

And as we all know - the divorce rate, the pornography rate and the rest is about equal between "Christians" and non-Christians.

Brothers and sisters - here's a news flash. The way we today must relate to the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible is fundamentally the same way the Jews and real Christians have related to him throughout history. That is - through a covenant.

A covenant has stipulations (rules, laws, requirements, etc) that must be kept. The Old Covenant had 'em. The New Covenant has 'em, though they are indeed different from those in the Old.

BUT BY DEFINITION - WE'VE GOTTA KEEP 'EM TO STAY IN COVENANT!!! I'm sorry - I see that I'm shouting.

I woke up this morning praying, "Father, teach me to yield to your Spirit inside me - that I may keep Messiah's commandments, and thus please you."

This prayer is what every Christian SHOULD be praying. Then, they should strive to live within covenant to the best of their ability. The story says that the promise of the New Covenant is the Holy Spirit living inside us, giving us the ability to keep our side of the covenant.

When we fail to keep the covenant, as I do on occasion - then the well-documented process in the New Testament is to go to Jesus, our high priest, and ask forgiveness. He will pardon us, thank God!

But if you, Oprah, Ted Haggard or any other wingnut thinks that you can "be gay", or a philanderer or a liar or a cheat or any number of other things listed by Messiah or his rabbis (Paul, Peter, John and the rest) - if you think that you can "practice sin" and yet somehow stay in covenant with God, and then still somehow retain membership in his kingdom - well - you're in for a shock at the judgment! Check out 1 John for goodness sake.

So please read the Bible - read the whole story - and note that the overall story requires obedience to the covenant God has made in order for us to enter into the kingdom when Messiah returns.

Check out this post to see a bit more about exactly how to do this. This all seems so obvious to me, but apparently it eludes the "Christians" I've been tracking on the web.

Let's discuss...

14 comments:

Dustin said...

It is easy to bash him, and I dont really like to bash people. It doesnt yield high profits. But, it is right that this man be exposed as one that is not part of our fellowship. I cant believe Ted, a man who probably preached against Oprah and her philosophy, now on Oprah's show agreeing with her. Ted does not have a shred of morals left- he is sleeping with the philosophical opposite. It is only a measure to where sin can take a person. When will it stop for Ted? I do pray that he does come back into the Covenant and start following the Messiah. Ted is now following an anti-messiah. Hopefully, after he is thrown to satan he may see the falacy of his walk and come back. That is my desire.

Mike said...

Sure, Dustin, that's my hope for him as well. But more important than Ted is the Kingdom as a whole.

Think about it this way. How many people did Paul talk to, or have his letters read to, during his whole life?

I dunno, maybe 10,000 to 30,000 people?

How many people have watched this sick story of the leader of the largest organization of evangelicals on the planet turning out to be a homosexual drug using liar? And how many watched him and Oprah justify it as "that's just who Ted is - he can't deny himself" and "the problem was not the sodomy, it was just the lying about the sodomy"?

What, 100,000,000 - 500,000,000 people?

I'm not bashing Ted - he does that to himself every time he lies, does drugs, has gay sex or encourages others to do so.

What I'm reacting to in this post is the utter confusion of "Christians" and their inability to see this situation for what it is, and to correctly discern how to assess it and learn from it.

Dustin said...

I completely agree. I know that you are not bashing him. . . I was just putting my opinion in, not juxtopositioning us:) I really am quite sad to see Ted. His wife is expecially sad to see. Ted has some power over her because, as she talks she is slowly giving away all that she has ever believed in. Ted's wife probably has no identity outside of her marriage. I believe that she is just straining to keep that identity alive. Hopefully, she will get over that.

Heather Johnson said...

Wow this was interesting to find out. They have the scripture really twisted it is unbelievable. I don't remember reading any verses of God saying come as you are. Or that he will accept those sins or loves those sins. People like that, that have so much influence over people irritate me. They know what they are doing. I don't think he is confused or dazed at all. I believe he is purposely decieving people. He already knows what that Bible says and is going against it;plus twisting its words. If he is dazed at all it might be from some drugs he might of taken before the show. But he isn't dazed from the truth.

Lowell said...

Its what they say. The christian army is the only army that buries its wounded.

Laura Lyn Thrash said...

I watched the interview and got a very different perspective. I heard Oprah ask if Jesus accepts homesexuals and he said "Yes, he came for the unrighteous." He also later on said that he believed homesexuality was wrong. I think with a platform like Oprah, he had to take on a different approach. I saw his interview as a way to draw non-believers to Christ by showing that He loves you, He died for you. You don't have to make changes before you come to Him. He will help you with those changes later. Ted has issues but I think him talking about this situation allows for others to not keep things in secret. If you are having thoughts that you shouldn't have, then go to someone and get help. In the interview he said he did that and really wasn't given help. It is really sad what he did, what he put his family and church through but Jesus died for him just like He died for us.

Mike said...

Welcome, Laura Lyn, into this little outpost on the web. It's great to have your insightful comment!

And thanks to all you regulars as well!

I wholeheartedly agree that Jesus indeed died for all of us - and that huge reality needs to be communicated in the midst of a sordid story like this one.

My issue here is that the Christian story says more than just that - the story has a few very important details that are left out if we leave it at "Jesus loves me this I know".

So that whole story needs to be summarized on occasions like this.

I believe that the message that should have come out of the Oprah thing - and the HBO documentary, and indeed any time Ted and Gayle get a chance - should be something like the following:

******
God deals with mankind via covenants (agreements that say "you do this, and I'll do that"). The Old Testament Jews proved that they couldn't keep their side of the covenant God made with them, resulting in God's judgment in the Exile. So because of his great love, God promised that he'd put his spirit in them, and write the stipulations of the covenant on their hearts - thus changing them from their "insides out" - enabling them by his Spirit to keep their end of the covenant.

The cool thing is that Jesus the Messiah lived and died to provide justification (initial entry) into the kingdom family for all humanity - and the really cool thing is that when he was resurrected - he sent the Spirit to live in us - again, delivering on God's earlier promise and enabling us to keep his commandments.

Now - when we walk by the Spirit, we will not sin. (Romans 8, Galatians 5)

Of course, when we "stumble" in a sin (when we choose to "walk in the flesh"), we ask forgiveness and God will forgive. (I John 2-3). But we cannot "practice sin" habitually and expect to get into the kingdom. (I John 3:3-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:5)

We simply must walk by the Spirit, and thus make our faith and our works match up. (James 2:14-26)
******

If this, or anything close to it, were the message that was communicated in Ted's story - well, I wouldn't be reacting the way I am.

But in my opinion, when Ted high-fived Oprah when she said that the problem with Ted was not that he was a practicing homosexual, but only that he had lied about it - well, that cuts the heart out of the Judeo-Christian worldview.

Thanks again, everyone, for the insightful comments - you all are a joy to talk with!

Anonymous said...

You only post those that agree with you. That does not show a true Christian but a very bigoted individual full of ego.
How can one be Christian and yet thinking this sort of hate towards others is Christian love?
Bigotry.

Mike said...

Anon,

Really? Bigotry, hate, ego...

If you'll look again, I did not "label" anyone as you have done to me, and I did not express hate.

Ego? Yep, all of us have one - clearly you're not exempt from that charge either.

What I indeed do on this site is present comparisons between worldviews. Specifically, the variant expressions of the Judeo-Christian worldview, or perhaps comparisons of it to other worldviews.

So if that level of "discrimination" (i.e. comparison of contradictory worldviews) bothers you - then you'll be very bothered indeed on this site.

Laura Lyn Thrash said...

For annonomys - I didn't agree with all that he said, yet he posted my comment.

Mike - I agree with some of what you say about what Ted's message should have been. I can't judge his heart, only God can do that. I assumed because it was Oprah only he could say so much or certain things. I do remember him saying that he believed homosexuality was indeed wrong. He could have been more clear and could have said a lot of what you suggested but for a non-believer I think that is too deep. I think non-believers would be overwhelmed if given a list of dos and don'ts. I believe Ted would have been wrong to sit there and say Jesus does not love homosexuals. It would be like saying he doesn't like drunks or liars, etc. He loves sinners. He doesn't love the sin!

As for a comment made on never seeing any scriptures that say come as you are, I would have to disagree. Jesus ate with sinners(Matt 9:10-13). He showed love - not a turn or burn approach. I am in no way saying love the sin, but do love the sinner! How can a sinner change if they does not have Jesus? So, come as you are. Once you are a new creation, you have the ability to change. If you are a christian, you should be changing, you should be growing. When you stumble, you should repent (ask for forgiveness AND change/turn from the sin).

Anonymous said...

Now the last poster was putting forth a Christian viewpoint and attitude. No hate or venom spewing forth from that person.
Lesson to be learned but probably not from you. Why not?

Dustin said...

Anonymous,
I am kind of confused about your viewpoint. What do you mean by stating, "Lesson to be learned"? After all, we come hear to help understand each other, right?

Mike said...

Sorry guys - this anonymous poster is very likely, based on the data I can gather, the same individual that harassed Dean's website. He/she shouldn't be a problem anymore.

Thanks Laura Lyn - I think we agree completely. I especially like the way you said "when you stumble, you should repent (ask for forgiveness AND change/turn from the sin)". That's the focal point of my position on this - and that's the point that did not come through to me in the Oprah piece.

BottomLine said...

I am thankful that Ted did not take his life or turn his back on God. My sincere thoughts and prayers are with his family. I didn't like Oprah's questioning. I watch her show daily and we all know her feelings about sexual immorality. Oprah has tunnel vision when discussing homosexuality. I pray that God strengthens Ted on his journey and I am happy to see the work God is doing in him. I will be praying for him and his family daily.